GONZÁLEZ: Hey everybody, I’m Ana.

NUNES: And I’m Alex. You’re listening to Mosaic.

GONZÁLEZ: I’m really excited about this episode, Alex. Because it’s all about one of my favorite things: food. I love food, not just because it tastes good, but because of the stories that it tells about our past and present.

NUNES: And in this episode of Mosaic, we can trace the story of an immigrant named Conroy from Jamaica to Pawtucket through a Jamaican patty.

GONZÁLEZ: I’m in the back hallway of Hope Artiste Village, a converted mill building in Pawtucket that houses dozens of local businesses. It’s the first day of the indoor winter farmer’s market.

GONZÁLEZ; All around me are families buying grass-fed meats and organic brussel sprouts. There’s a man playing playing jazz accordion for tips. Vendors of niche goods and services crowd the walls, selling crepes, empanadas, artisanal breads, and Jamaican hand pies.

GONZÁLEZ: Can I get a patty?

CONROY OUTAR: Sure can!

GONZÁLEZ: Can I get the curry veggie one? Cool. So, what’s in the curry veggie one?

CONROY: The curry veggie is chickpea and carrots. And we cook it into a coconut curry sauce, pipe it in a special dough, a vegan dough. And it’s baked to perfection.

GONZÁLEZ: Conroy is in the corner of the market, like he is every Saturday morning, with his business partner, Alison, and their trays and trays of Jamaican patties. He’s run out of curry veggie patties already, so he runs to the back room to get another tray.

GONZÁLEZ: What do you think is like your best-selling patty?

CONROY: So far today, we’re getting a lot of beef and veg. It varies from week to week, you know?

GONZÁLEZ: Conroy is full of energy, talking to his line of customers, making sure everyone gets their patties and sauces. But he wasn’t always like this. Growing up in Jamaica, his first memories are of rules and silence.

Conroy rolling out the dough

Conroy rolling out the dough

LISA GENDRON

CONROY: It was considered bad manners to eat while talking, to speak while at the table. Yeah, so it's very rigid, you know, and they thought that learning those manners, that would make you succeed in the world.

NUNES: Like most Caribbean islands, Jamaica has a deep history of colonization. Columbus arrives on the island in 1494 and claims it for Spain. The British take the island 200 years later and maintain control for 300 years. Jamaica only becomes independent in 1962, 10 years before Conroy is born.

GONZÁLEZ: And Conroy says, his childhood is governed by a British sense of propriety.

CONROY: You could not sit on the bed when it's made. You couldn't wear slippers has to be left outside and you know, it's very, very rigid. For me was like anxiousness, internal anxiousness and just felt subdued, constantly felt controlled, you know? It was just depressing, you know?

NUNES: School is rigid, too. Conroy describes it as militant: making students memorize long passages and follow every rule to a t.

CONROY: There's no emotions and no fun. So the kids who were able to you know, follow a strict rule, nothing was out the box, were able to read something, recite it back you know, those were the kids who were considered smart.

GONZÁLEZ: Conroy is not one of those kids. He’s drawn to art and music. He doesn’t do well on tests, and he questions his teachers. He’s told to be quiet, to turn off whatever curiosity that’s bubbling inside of his head. But at the end of each day, there’s an escape.

CONROY: I always been fascinated with food as a kid. I can't remember the age but I remember watching Love Boat. And this one guy who stood out was Isaac, the bartender. He was so smiley, you know, very happy. And I remember seeing the chefs with the tall hats, and it was just fascinating. And then seeing the buffets and the color schemes and just the expressions of people integrating and just talking and having the food being the connector. I was just in awe. I was like, “Wow, one day I would love to work on a ship.” That’s when I decided I wanted to be a chef.

NUNES: But Conroy keeps that dream a secret. He has no idea how to become a chef, and there’s no one in his life that would support him in this career choice.

Preparing the spices

Preparing the spices

LISA GENDRON

GONZÁLEZ: To Conroy’s family, working in a kitchen is lower class. Not a worthy profession like a doctor or a lawyer. It’s important to note at this point that Conroy’s family is black, and, even though the majority of Jamaica is black, the country has been a British colony for 300 years.

NUNES: Yeah, it seems like Conroy’s family is trying to avoid being lumped together with people they consider lower class simply because they are of African descent.

GONZÁLEZ: It makes sense that Conroy’s family is very Christian and values the rules of society because they want to be seen as proper, higher class folk. So, being a chef isn’t what they have in mind for their son.

NUNES: But Conroy has a neighbor who thinks differently.

CONROY: His name was Crush. In Jamaica we have some very colorful names. His name was Crush. He ride a bike, and he took a liking to me.

GONZÁLEZ: Conroy walks by Crush’s bakery every day on his way home from school. They make small talk. Crush is warm and kind, and he wants to teach young Conroy how to make his specialty: patties.

NUNES: Jamaican patties are like empanadas: hand pies with flaky, flour dough, filled with delicious meats, vegetables, and sauces. Crush makes his patties by hand every day.

CONROY: He gave me a job, teach me how to make patties, teach me how to make the dough. Even though I’m outgoing, there was a shyness. But he pulled me in, and I'll never forget that.

Inside a patty

Inside a patty

DONALD PHUNG

GONZÁLEZ: So, Conroy finally has an outlet for his culinary pursuits. When he graduates from high school, he starts to pursue a career in restaurant and hotel management. But he really wants to get out of Jamaica. It’s a small island, and he wants to learn more about the world.

NUNES: During this time, Conroy has an older brother who had been working at a hotel in Nantucket for years. It’s the 1990s, and American hotels and resorts are starting to look for seasonal workers outside of the country to help out during the busiest months.

GONZÁLEZ; So, the US government starts allowing companies to bring in workers for these temporary jobs under what’s known as an H-2B visa. It’s a really hard application process that requires a sponsor. Conroy begs his brother to recommend him. And after years of applying, Conroy gets his H-2B visa for the 1996 summer season.

CONROY: The first excitement was getting on a plane, you know that was an experience. And then, when I landed in Boston, it was May. And I thought I was in a freezer box. May. Yeah. And I was shaking. And I’m seeing all these tall buildings. Everything was happening so quickly. I’m like, “Wow.” It was I was going between fascination and being terrified at the same time. And then the drive down was so surreal, you know, being on the road was just like seeing the road was so perfectly paved. It was quite an experience.

NUNES: Conroy’s first job is at a hotel in Falmouth on Cape Cod. He’s a dishwasher. And while that might not sound like fun, it is for Conroy. He’s out of Jamaica for the first time in his life, and he’s meeting all types of different people.

GONZÁLEZ: In particular, Conroy says he had never been around so many white people. So, he’s negotiating these racial and cultural differences for the first time, and it’s changing his entire world view. At the end of the summer, Conroy goes back to Jamaica because his visa runs out, and he brings this new perspective with him.

CONROY: When I first came, went back I realized, “Wow, there's so much to learn some of the things that my parents was incorrect about,” I met so many people that didn't look like me, some people all over the world, who were very kind. Like, I didn't have a car, you know, these guys were picking me up, giving me rides to work, you know, just kindness that was offered to me, you know, by my coworkers. I couldn't wait to come back. You know, it's like, no, I get a taste of the exposure. I want it all.

NUNES: Conroy goes back and forth between Falmouth and Jamaica for 3 years before deciding to move to the US permanently. He gets a job on staff at a big hotel chain in Florida and moves there.

GONZÁLEZ: He rises in the corporate ranks and begins training new hires. Eventually, he transfers up to a hotel in Providence because he wants to settle down with his girlfriend and maybe even take classes at Johnson & Wales in culinary arts.

NUNES: But Conroy is supporting himself entirely. He’s working at the Westin in Providence and waiting tables to make ends meet. Soon, he gets married and has kids. So, he never goes to school.

GONZÁLEZ: But he’s definitely getting an education. He buys a house in Cranston and starts waiting tables at a restaurant in Warwick. They recognize his managerial skills and promote him to General Manager. He quits the Westin and starts working full-time at this local hangout.

CONROY: And that's really where my American journey started. Because at the hotel, people would just come and go, it's like a big circle, you know. You don't feel like you actually belong to a community. When I became a GM at a local restaurant, in the town, you start meeting the local -- I met the mayor, the local politicians, and I started having one-on-one conversations. So that's when I started growing as an American citizen. I became a citizen, and I felt like I belonged, like I had a foot in the door, so to speak.

NUNES: Conroy starts getting books on American history. He wants to understand why the country was founded and what the different political parties stand for. He says, that knowledge makes him feel safe because it helps him figure out who to vote for and how to have a voice in government..

GONZÁLEZ: Back in Jamaica, being involved in politics in any public way could get you killed. But here, getting involved in politics could get you a leg up. And, soon, Conroy starts thinking that he can make his community better if he speaks up.

CONROY: The restaurant I was managing had huge potential. It was in a, you know, historic part of the town, and I saw a vision where this could be a tourism destination. So this could be a way to drive business. And when I presented to the owners they were like, “Nah.” And then when I say “Hey, can I be a part of what's going?” “No.” That, you know, left a bad taste in my mouth and that's when that the burning desire of doing something started.

NUNES: That something is called “Mi Tastee Jamaica”. It’s a Jamaican-themed restaurant Conroy dreams up. He plans out a menu and a concept and presents it to his mentor in the restaurant business. His mentor says, “That’s not gonna work.”

GONZÁLEZ: Conroy is crushed. But he goes back to the drawing board and comes up with another business idea: “Patois Catering.” Conroy assembles a team of people to help him cater events with Jamaican food. And the idea sticks.

NUNES: The only problem is that Conroy is relying entirely on other people to make his food. It’s a lot to coordinate, and there’s too much room for mistakes. Especially when it comes to making patties.

CONROY: We got the recipe, and I was giving the recipe to a bakery in East Providence to make the dough. There's a miscommunication, and they were closed for the week, and I was doing an event. And so I had to learn how to make that dough from scratch.

GONZÁLEZ: He has the list of ingredients, but he hasn’t made dough himself in decades. And anyone who’s ever tried to make dough before knows how tricky that can be. But, he thinks of Crush, the old baker who taught him how to make dough decades ago in Jamaica.

CONROY: And literally I went to Dunkin Donuts, got a box of coffee, stayed up the whole night. And I went back to my memory bank, swear to God, I remembered-- the ingredients is one thing, but how to put it all together and the kneading of the dough by hand. It's funny how the last laugh is on me like my visual learning was a taboo back then. And even though I couldn't remember 2x over whatever the equation is, but I remembered the texture. I remember what a texture should feel like. And I remember how to make that dough. So it’s been over 25 years ago, and that's what saved me.

NUNES: And that’s what gives Conroy the confidence to say, “I can do this whole thing on my own.”

GONZÁLEZ: So, he goes back to the drawing board again. This time, he wants to streamline everything, make all of the food himself and deliver it to his customers as quickly and cheaply as possible without sacrificing flavor or quality.

NUNES: He starts going to a small business owner meeting in Warwick to network, and he meets a woman named Allison. They click immediately. Conroy tells her all about his business ideas, and she says, “What about a Jamaican food truck?”

Conroy in his future home

Conroy in his future home

GONZÁLEZ: It’s March 2018, and JA Patty is born.

CONROY: So I was pulling from my hotel and restaurant experiences creating a menu that’s telling a story. And so, you know, I just connect my personal journey, my story. So, okay, what do I want people to know about me? Or what do I want people to know about Jamaica through my eyes?

NUNES: And what better vessel to tell Conroy’s story than a Jamaican patty? The insides are filled with spices and marinated meats and vegetables Conroy grew up with in Jamaica. And the dough is based on the recipe Conroy learned all those years ago in Crush’s kitchen.

GONZÁLEZ: Let me tell you, they’re delicious. And I’m not the only one who thinks so. For the past year, Conroy and Alison have been working full-time on JA Patty: developing new and delicious patty recipes, perfecting their dough, and selling their patties at events and farmers markets all over Rhode Island. They’re finally at a point where they are turning their food truck into a brick and mortar shop.

CONROY: So this is our space, yeah. I just put on the the sealer wax yesterday. So you can take a look around.

GONZÁLEZ: You did this?

CONROY: Yeah...

GONZÁLEZ: The future headquarters of JA Patty is in a renovated mill building off of Mineral Spring Avenue. All around us, there are people just like Conroy building out their spaces into yoga studios and granola companies. It’s sparse -- just a professional freezer and some freshly-painted walls, but Conroy has plans.

CONROY: I call this the beginning because we are not stopping here. And the whole idea of this is we want to be a part of Rhode Island. You know, we don't want this to be a vacation spot where you just stop by. We want to integrate the food into culture. Well, because I was thinking about I was thinking about the history of food, you know, as it relates to America. Back in the main immigration when you know, French came over, Italian, and they brought their culture with them and that that collection on became a mainstream America. So why can’t it be Jamaican food, you know?

GONZÁLEZ: Conroy wants to have this be a spot where people can come learn about Jamaican culture through food and imported Jamaican products. He wants live music and people coming together, catching up over patties he made from scratch that morning. And Conroy will be behind the counter, kneading the dough with floured hands and smiling.

NUNES: Mosaic is a production of The Public’s Radio, edited by Sally Eisele with production help from James Baumgartner and Aaron Selbig. Our original music is by Bryn Bliska. Torey Malatia is the general manager of The Public’s Radio. I’m Alex Nunes

GONZÁLEZ: And I’m Ana González. Thanks for listening to Mosaic! If you've enjoyed the stories you've heard over the last few months, we'd like to ask you for a small favor: Share this podcast with someone you know. You can tweet about it, post it to Facebook, or email your family with a link. We'd like for as many people as possible to hear about Mosaic, and we know that when you share it with friends, that can make a big difference. You can subscribe to Mosaic on Spotify, Stitcher, or Apple Podcasts. Or use this RSS feed in your podcatcher of choice.

Support for this podcast comes from Carnegie Corporation of New York, supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security at Carnegie.org.